Converting 401k and IRA Funds Into "Steady Payment Streams" → Washingtons Blog
Converting 401k and IRA Funds Into "Steady Payment Streams" - Washingtons Blog

Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Converting 401k and IRA Funds Into "Steady Payment Streams"

Last May, I wrote about the rumor that the Obama administration might seize funds from American's 401k and IRA accounts.

Last week, Bloomberg pointed out:

The Obama administration is weighing how the government can encourage workers to turn their savings into guaranteed income streams following a collapse in retiree accounts when the stock market plunged.

The U.S. Treasury and Labor Departments will ask for public comment as soon as next week on ways to promote the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams, according to Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Mark Iwry, who are spearheading the effort...

There is “a tremendous amount of interest in the White House” in retirement-security initiatives, Borzi, who heads the Labor Department’s Employee Benefits Security Administration, said in an interview.

In addition to annuities, the inquiry will cover other approaches to guaranteeing income, including longevity insurance that would provide an income stream for retirees living beyond a certain age, she said.

“There’s been a fair amount of discussion in the literature taking the view that perhaps there ought to be more lifetime income,” Iwry, a senior adviser to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, said in an interview...

One proposal raised by Iwry as co-author of a paper while at the Retirement Security Project, before joining the administration, has reached Congress. A bill requiring employers to report 401(k) savings both as an account balance and as a stream of income based on an annuity was introduced on Dec. 3 by Senators Jeff Bingaman, a New Mexico Democrat, Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican, and Herb Kohl, a Wisconsin Democrat.

Sounds innocuous, right?


But Karl Denninger and Jesse smell a rat.

Denninger writes:

In a short conversation this noontime ... Rick Santelli was talking about a potential to effectively force money into the Treasury market.

Where would they get this?

From your 401k and IRA accounts!...

Let me tell you what this is - it is an attempt to prevent the collapse of the Treasury market!

Forcing people into Treasuries as an "annuity" is exactly what Social Security allegedly is. Except that Treasury stole the money that was collected in FICA taxes and spent it!

Guess what? They'll do that here too - you're going to "invest" in Treasuries which of course are effectively a CALL option on the future taxing ability of the government.

The problem is that with an aging population and the immigrant problem (illegal immigrants that is), along with offshoring, the aggregate wage base will drop and thus this is the most dangerous investment of all!

What's even worse is that the government has intentionally suppressed Treasury yields during this crisis (and will keep doing so by various means, including manipulating the CPI - the "inflation index" - as they have for the last 30 years) so as to guarantee that you lose over time compared to actual purchasing power...

"Choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!

This may be the only way for Treasury to hold down interest rates to something reasonable in the intermediate term, but doing so will instantaneously remove a major source of funding for the stock market - that is, the monthly and quarterly inflows from retirement accounts.

You can bet this won't be good for you, the ordinary American.

You can also bet that once such an "option" is made available there is a very high probability of the government doing things that either promote or simply don't stand in the way of another stock market crash as a means of "herding" your money into Treasuries - so they can blow it - all under the guise of being allegedly "safe".

Of course this begs the question - what if the government can't pay down the road when you retire, just as they can't pay on a forward basis with Social Security and Medicare?

This "proposal" can only mean one thing - Treasury smells smoke. Maybe you should pay attention to what they're huffing!

And before you say "oh they'd never do that" I want you to read this:

Here is a warning to us all. The Argentine state is taking control of the country’s privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash.


My fear is that governments in the US, Britain, and Europe will display similar reflexes. Indeed, they have already done so. The forced-feeding of banks with fresh capital – whether they want it or not – and the seizure of the Fannie/Freddie mortgage giants before they were in fact in trouble (in order to prevent a Chinese buying strike of US bonds and prevent a spike in US mortgage rates), shows that private property can be co-opted – or eliminated – with little due process if that is required to serve the collective welfare.

Jesse has a similar take:

As a rule of thumb, the worst possible time to convert lump sum savings into a fixed income annuity would be when interest rates are historically low.

Although products may vary, this is roughly equivalent to buying long term bonds at a time when interest rates are likely to increase, substantially reducing your principal in real terms, and eroding your fixed returns through inflation.

For some reason the Obama Administration is promoting the idea now that there should be some encouragement for Americans to start converting their 401K's and IRA's into annuities, to provide themselves with lifetime income.

The effort is being spear-headed by Mark Iwry of the Treasury and Phyllis Borzi of the Department of Labor. Here is a paper written on the subject by Mark Iwry when he was at the Brookings Institution.

The essence of this paper is that distributions from IRA's and 401K's would automatically be rolled into an annuity providing a monthly income by default.

This concept is known on the Street as the handling fees for meager returns pork barrel pigfest. The Fed likes it because they will undoubtedly get a two year rolling chunk of the people's retirement cash to play with.

Perhaps just rolling those 401K's and IRA's into Social Security or the Long Bond would be what they have in mind. Somehow the panacea of TIPS with inflation defined by the government sounds probable. The drawback perhaps is that this would not generate the highest recurring fees for Wall Street and the FIRE sector, which have to be eyeing that 'cash on the sidelines' hungrily.

How about Patriot Bonds that are fully invested in Mortgage Debt formerly owned by the Fed, with some tranches of Commercial Real Estate to add some zest to the recipe? The Treasury can give this option a small tax break, which can be largely consumed by Wall Street fees and mispricing of risk returns ...

My model for thinking about this annuitization is that the government wishes to appropriate your savings for a 2.0% return, ex fees and mispriced risk and inflation, as a source of funding for the bailouts of an oversized and insolvent FIRE sector (like AIG) and the imploding pretensions of a global financial elite...

Administration Explores R Bond For Retirement Accounts - Investment News 7 June 2009
Why have a separate "R Bond" instead of those government bonds they have now called 'Treasuries?' And why have a mandatory universal retirement system when you have this thing called 'Social Security?' Think about it. Sounds like the kind of preparations governments make for things like 'new dollars' after a selective default.

Are Denninger and Jesse right?

I don't know ... we'll have to wait and see.


  1. The last act of a dying regime,is to loot the treasury on the way out the back door

  2. Man, this scares me more than anything I have seen in the last 6 months. Why? I understand what is coming. I am doing my best to get prepared and alert others. This has the potential to slam the door shut on our window of opportunities for preparation for the coming Hyper Inflationary Great Depression.

    Consider how carefully our government is treading on healtchare. If they move at the same pace with the same level of concern for the consent of the governed..

    Then cashing out now and taking a tax hit is much preferrable to being locked into a slow motion (or not so slow) currency devaluation.

  3. If they go for broke and "lock-in" everyones savings, this will push the masses over the edge. You can take that to the bank.

  4. I see total and absolute panic and chaos coming. Many Americans are totally clueless of what is about to happen.

  5. Get wisdom, read your Bible and learn the definition of usary. Buy silver while it is cheap and get ready for the fiat currany crash.

  6. Let us do simple math...... Today, Jan. 17, 2009, 20 presidential one dollar coins have a melt value of $1.15, that was "TWENTY COINS"..... One 1964 90% SILVER Roosevelt dime melts with a value of $1.37, That was ONE 90% SILVER DIME valued at 22 cents above TWENTY presidential dollars. So, 200 90% silver dimes have the same face value as TWENTY PRESIDENTIAL DOLLARS however, 20 dollars face value of presidential dollars (melt value: $1.15) Cannot stand next to TWENTY DOLLARS FACE VALUE OF 90% SILVER DIMES (melt value, $274.00) Can you hear me now?

  7. I think it would be "POLITICAL SUICIDE"for the left wing democrats...I think people "NEED TO VOTE THOSE F@$KING EDIOTS OUT OF OFFICE...AND put back the republicans back in office.

  8. I am not going to "explicitly call for violence" but I will say this: My 401(k) and IRA balances are high enough to be worth more to me than the lives of those who would seek to steal them. These folks had better tread carefully.

  9. I work for a municipal government and we pay into the Hartford 457 Deferred Compensation plan, does this bill affect that plan? Or is it exempt because it is also offered to federal and stated government employees?

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